Steve: Since you were the one who pointed out to me the two time and step process of finding then thrusting, how do you see that count of steps when one holds the sword as far back as Fabris did in most of his rapier and dagger wards?

Extend - find - thrust?

Extend/find - thrust?

extend/close but not find, thrust?

Something else?

R

If you think of finding as Engagement (whether or not you are actually touching the opponent's sword), it is much easier.

Consider that you can attack with or without engagement. However, at some point in your attack you need to close the line (unless you are voiding) whether it is with sword or dagger or both (notice the placement of the dagger in Fabris' plates showing the lunges with sword and dagger). Therefore, assuming you and your opponent are both in the withdrawn Terza of sword and dagger (Fabris Plate 60), you can just barely find his sword with your sword, dagger, or both weapons (also assuming you're both around the same height). Then, when you extend and lunge, you will shut him out on that line during your extension with your opposition. If he has his weapon in your presence, this will likely happen with contact; however, if for some reason he does not have his point directed within your presence, then contact might not happen. (Remember that opposition doesn't necessarily mean contact, just that you close the line. )

Note that you might not be able to find your opponent's sword depending on his guard. In this case, you'd assume a good counter-posture, then you'd close the line as you thrust (with the sword, the dagger, or both).

As I said above, I tend to think of finding/gaining as just a variation on classical engagement--it is tactically the same, only a few details (i.e. contact) are different. Consider that the techniques to "solve" the problem of your sword being found are the same as in both dueling sword and rapier (i.e. cavazione, forced glide, beat, etc.).

Steve

Yes that' right. Sometimes the sequence for two fencers is designed so that the distance between the fencers remains relatively constant. Observing the progression the side, it should appear identical to the plates themselves.